LAWLZ...armageddonz

[Nightstalker]

Jehovah's Witness?

Whichever it is, i'm about to become that religion.

I think one could state that even any Christian should be exempt.

[Paul]

Amish, perhaps? also, scientologists don't need health-care, they just have to use their superpowered zenu enlightened brains to heal themselves, that is if they write their checks on time.

[Nightstalker]

That's what i'm thinking, since I recall seeing controvery surrounding Scientology because they were known for not taking people to traditional treatment, resulting in the deaths of people that would have otherwise survived.

I think John Travolta's kid was involved in such a case.

[Kastil]

Scientology mainly goes against drugs for the treatment of Psychological disorders.  Mainstream medicine is still ok.   Jehovah's Witnesses are really just against blood transfusions though I believe they still can do plasma.  Christian Scientists only trust healing through prayer so those guys are the way to go.

Of course even if you go this way it doesn't save you from increased taxes.

Varg, the big toss up right now thats being discussed is the Constitutionality of it all.  In the Constitution it states that any power not given to Congress and the Federal Government by the Constitution is solely reserved for the States.  Since no where in there does it give the rights to force citizens to buy any sort of goods or service the arguement is that is a State's right and not the Federal Government's right.  Congress is saying that through the clause that allows them to regulate interstate commerce they can regulate healthcare.   Well that and actually getting a vote in both the House AND the Senate in order for it to pass into law.

I'm just stubborn.  I hate things being forced on me and will balk if someone jerks the reins too hard.  The way this bill was forced through, whether its good or bad, just has me wanting to punch somebody.  So help me if they try this crap with Amnesty I'm moving to Brazil.   You know they have topless beaches and girls there really like pale guys?

 

[thrun]

Ya I know, there's nothing worse then the government forcing me to by grenade launchers they don't even let me use.

[Redbear8]

Looks like it's time to freshen up the Fishing Boat Crew Roster I had going in the last thread.

[Jim Tressel]

I'm curious about something, but feel free to not answer if you aren't comfortable doing so.

Does anyone here not currently have health insurance? 
If you don't, is it because A) You are employed by a business that doesn't provide coverage, B) You have opted out of employer-provided coverage, C) You are unemployed and don't have the extra scratch, or D) You are young and virile and will live forever without medical attention?

These are sincere questions.  Night, please do not hijack this with your ass-clown behavior.

[Nightstalker]

Night, please do not hijack this with your ass-clown behavior.

You and others are the one who started this mess with this fucking thread, with the trolling comments.

And you could have left this sentence out, but you are trying to perpetuate shit. Notice how I promptly turned the killswitch off earlier with serious discussion, yet I didnt call for you to end your faggotry as you did?

And the answers to your question are both B and D bitch. Enjoy

[Redbear8]

Night, you're going to get HPV

[Jim Tressel]

I thought I asked you to remove your ass-clown costume.

[Varg]

Employed, have a very expensive health insurance plan for a family of three. I see what your getting at though. If I pay for it anyway why would i care that I i will pay for it in the future no matter what, is the fact that i feel like my rights have been stepped on about this matter worth the suffering of those who cannot afford heathcare when i am fortunate enough to be able to? You have a valid point, and I respect it. I don't think this is a as easy as a "NAH AH / UH HA" argument. Both sides of the fence here have good reasons for supporting it or choosing not to. What kind of heartless person would not want healthcare for those who cannot afford it? What kind of mindless person does not see that individual rights are what makes the US stand out from every other nation today or in all of history and a key component to is successes? Its controversal for a reason, there are supporting well thought out points on either side.

Progress, according to Webster:
3 : gradual betterment; especially : the progressive development of humankind

I dont read that as socialism, its betterment of humanity. The real question is " Are we progressing, or moving backward?" None of us really know. I think we will all have to wait and see.

[Jim Tressel]

Thank you for the insightful comments Varg.

I must admit, the mandate has me bothered as well.  My initial reaction was "What the FUCK?!  Now we HAVE to buy something?"  Then I thought a while on it and a couple things came to mind.

1) It is and has been the case for a very long time that anyone, insured or not, must be treated in emergency situations by hospitals.
2) The cost of this care, which is generally higher but even more so for the uninsured since the hospital isn't beholden to the lower rates they've negotiated with insurance companies, might have been avoided through regular, pro-active doctor visits.
3) These costs are absorbed by hospitals (who then raise fees for services for the rest of us) and taxpayers (in the case that the uninsured goes to a government-subsidized caregiver).

Therefore, if we require hospitals and clinics to treat the uninsured and we require everyone to pick up the tab, it's not all that unreasonable to expect the people who have access to a service (everyone) to pay toward that service.  You can always not buy insurance and pay the fine, which you could justify as the cover-charge for your eventual emergency room visit.

The only other option then is don't have a mandate and don't allow the uninsured (or at least those who can't afford to pay cash) access to medical treatment in an emergency.  That's a bit inhumane, but it also solves the dilemma.

No American enjoys being told they HAVE to buy something.  We're a nation founded on telling authority to fuck off.  However, I struggle to conjure another strategy that pays the bills and ensures care for everyone.

[Varg]

Good point JT. I actually work in a hospital and am all to familiar with how that works. What a lot of people don't think about as well, is that if a person does not have health insurance, and they have a bad cold or something they need a persciption for, the will go the ER knowing they will be seen. This is bad because it slows down the ER for people with real emergencies. This actually a bigger problem than most people know.

Its a complex problem no doubt.





Do you see how we interacted here and raised several points, even though we may differ in opinion, about social problems and politics without name calling our trash talking? I, [GASP], may have even learned something from another persons point of view!

[Jim Tressel]

Simply stunning.

[Nightstalker]

However, I struggle to conjure another strategy that pays the bills and ensures care for everyone.

There are a whole myriad of other ideas proposed and many of them absolutely great and absolutely intentionally ignored.

This administration is driven by ideologue, regardless if you think that is spin or not, and quite honestly I don't give a shit about it anymore, because the shit is happening whether you want to believe it or not. And whether we want it or not for that matter.

That ideological thinking, being that Washington knows what's best for us regardless if we know contrary to it or not, and in result ignore the majority of what the people wanted..   This isn't anything new for Washington or government for that matter, but now it comes AT THE EXPENSE OF OUR CHOICE.

We didn't need all of this shit in the bill, much if which isn't even healthcare insurance related.

Why hasn't Torte reform been considered? What about opening insurance to compete on national stage?

We can have a fucking gecko telling us how much we save if we switch our  car insurance, and Wilford Brimley sell us life insurance, but we can't allow competition to drive down the costs of health insurance?

I hear complaints on Torte because it "wouldn't save enough". The point is it's a savings to begin with, but Washington thinking is such that since it would only save 40 billion, or 100 billion and it's not a single miracle plan, then it's not worth it. WTF? If it's just a nickle on the cost of a dollar, then its worth it. Repeal and reform other such "nickle" projects and soon they might find they are saving some serious change.


Now I don't mean to bark and you JT and Thrun, and i'm sorry if you took it to heart, but damnit you guys were provoking it with commentary in this thread. And you both have to realize that this whole issue is a big deal, with people here who are passionate about it.

I've given my money to Childrens Miracle Network, and to St. Judes Hospital on a monthly basis. That is charity, and for me it made me feel as though there is some shred of decency left in me to know that it is going for children.

Now the government is fucking telling me, and 22 millions others that don't want insurance, that we have to give. That's not charity, thats coercion. It's theft.  And considering the amount of money that goes to waste, will it ever see it's intended function?

If the fucking crooks in Washington cleaned up what they are spending on now, we could all have universal insurance without even adding a single cent to taxes. Federal taxes we don't even need in the fucking first place. We had a country run for 100 years without Federal taxes. Imagine what programs you could buy for yourselves without that.

But instead of cleaning up corruption and their waste, it's come down to them enforcing a mandate which revokes my choice?

NOTHING is worth the cost of freedom and choice.